Some minors in PasswordResetTool

[Vlada Macek-3]

passwordresettool.pot:

"... member name or your email address has changed) send an email to
${email_from_adress}."

    1) member - shouldn't we try to avoid this term that is important
    for developers, but not-only-IMHO confusing for joe user?

    2) ${email_from_adress} - a typo in msgid


Also in this product the notification mail is constructed in a way that
may be unfriendly to some languages. For more, isn't it redundant to use
DTML and ZPT for the same thing? (Looks like it's happening.)

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[Maurits van Rees-2]

Vlada Macek, on 2006-04-03:

> passwordresettool.pot:
>
> "... member name or your email address has changed) send an email to
> ${email_from_adress}."
>
>     1) member - shouldn't we try to avoid this term that is important
>     for developers, but not-only-IMHO confusing for joe user?
>
>     2) ${email_from_adress} - a typo in msgid
>
>
> Also in this product the notification mail is constructed in a way that
> may be unfriendly to some languages. For more, isn't it redundant to use
> DTML and ZPT for the same thing? (Looks like it's happening.)

Note that I changed the registered_notify_template.pt this week (a day
before your mail it seems). (The svn log mentions jladage there, who
is my boss.)

I didn't adapt the .pot file though.  There are still some holes in my
i18n knowledge.  Not touching too many files is a good way of not
messing up. :)

--
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[Hanno Schlichting-2]

Maurits van Rees wrote:
> Vlada Macek, on 2006-04-03:
>> passwordresettool.pot
>
> I didn't adapt the .pot file though.  There are still some holes in my
> i18n knowledge.  Not touching too many files is a good way of not
> messing up. :)

I'll recreate the pot again this week and inform the translators once it
is done.

Hanno



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[Jean-Paul Ladage]

Hi Hanno, all,

I took the liberty of recreating the pot files today. All products except cmfpw are succesfully updated.
Also the po files are synced. So all translators please update your po files for the upcoming release 2.1.3

Another thing that crossed my mind during the rebuilds is the fact that trunk of PloneTranslations now "supports" Plone 2.5 and 2.1.3 which in my opinion in not entirely true. 2.5 uses Archetypes 1.4 for example. If some msgids are removed in AT1.4, we would miss those in plone-2.1.3.

To prevent such issues I suggest to branch up PloneTranslations and sync the versioning with Plone. Are there any objection or other thoughts about this?

Kind regards,

Jean-Paul Ladage



Hanno Schlichting wrote:

Maurits van Rees wrote:
  

Vlada Macek, on 2006-04-03:
    

passwordresettool.pot
      

I didn't adapt the .pot file though.  There are still some holes in my
i18n knowledge.  Not touching too many files is a good way of not
messing up. :)
    

I'll recreate the pot again this week and inform the translators once it
is done.

Hanno



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[Hanno Schlichting-2]

Hi Jean-Paul, all :)

Jean-Paul Ladage wrote:
> Hi Hanno, all,
>
> I took the liberty of recreating the pot files today. All products
> except cmfpw are succesfully updated.

Usually this would be really appreciated but the rebuilding of pot files
is slightly more complicated as it sounds. There are various
undocumented manual task to do, which I regularly do, but you couldn't
have known about. This goes from manually excluding certain files from
the 2.1 plone skins (the old edit forms for non-atct-based content
types), removing some stupid 'false positives' from pot files (like
msgid "archetypes") to rescuing translations for literal msgid's where
the original text has only been spell-fixed.

So while I appreciate your work, it would have been nice if you would
have asked me first to spare us some work ;)

> Also the po files are synced. So all translators please update your po
> files for the upcoming release 2.1.3

Now I resynced them again and they should be ready for consumption.

> Another thing that crossed my mind during the rebuilds is the fact that
> trunk of PloneTranslations now "supports" Plone 2.5 and 2.1.3 which in
> my opinion in not entirely true. 2.5 uses Archetypes 1.4 for example. If
> some msgids are removed in AT1.4, we would miss those in plone-2.1.3.
>
> To prevent such issues I suggest to branch up PloneTranslations and sync
> the versioning with Plone. Are there any objection or other thoughts
> about this?

Well right now I cope with this manually by rebuilding the pot files
under both Plone versions and diffing them into one that is valid for
both versions.

So far there has been no real conflicts between both versions and as
long as this is the case, I would like to stick to the simple plan. My
reason here is, as already argued, that I do not want to make
translating Plone more difficult as it has to be. Subversion branches
are some added complexity I would like to avoid as long as it is possible.

I guess this won't be the case for too long anymore as I expect some of
the UI folks to start tweaking things in 2.5 soon, as the infrastructure
is nearly finished now. But as I cannot foretell the future I would like
to wait with the branching once this happens. Ideally we would see a
2.1.3 and a 2.5-beta2 release with shared translations before.

Best wishes,
Hanno



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[Jean-Paul Ladage]

Hi Hanno,

Thanks for your information! I'm sorry if I put you at work because of my commits. I read
the how-to and didn't find any warnings about the manual steps you mention here.

As an active translator for the dutch language I would like to be able to assist you in the
process of updating the pot files. It would be nice if you could document your serie of
manual tasks so other people can assist. I'm willing to extend the utils to automate some
of the manual tasks (if possible). E.g. skipping  the edit forms would be fairly easy to automate
using regex, right?

I understand your arguments about branching up. Another alternative could be to create a
clearly marked section in the *-manual.pot for deprecated msgids. That way we can always
rebuild against the latest releases and add the msgid that are removed to the deprecated section.

Kind regards,

Jean-Paul Ladage


Hanno Schlichting wrote:

Hi Jean-Paul, all :)

Jean-Paul Ladage wrote:
  

Hi Hanno, all,

I took the liberty of recreating the pot files today. All products
except cmfpw are succesfully updated.
    

Usually this would be really appreciated but the rebuilding of pot files
is slightly more complicated as it sounds. There are various
undocumented manual task to do, which I regularly do, but you couldn't
have known about. This goes from manually excluding certain files from
the 2.1 plone skins (the old edit forms for non-atct-based content
types), removing some stupid 'false positives' from pot files (like
msgid "archetypes") to rescuing translations for literal msgid's where
the original text has only been spell-fixed.

So while I appreciate your work, it would have been nice if you would
have asked me first to spare us some work ;)

  

Also the po files are synced. So all translators please update your po
files for the upcoming release 2.1.3
    

Now I resynced them again and they should be ready for consumption.

  

Another thing that crossed my mind during the rebuilds is the fact that
trunk of PloneTranslations now "supports" Plone 2.5 and 2.1.3 which in
my opinion in not entirely true. 2.5 uses Archetypes 1.4 for example. If
some msgids are removed in AT1.4, we would miss those in plone-2.1.3.

To prevent such issues I suggest to branch up PloneTranslations and sync
the versioning with Plone. Are there any objection or other thoughts
about this?
    

Well right now I cope with this manually by rebuilding the pot files
under both Plone versions and diffing them into one that is valid for
both versions.

So far there has been no real conflicts between both versions and as
long as this is the case, I would like to stick to the simple plan. My
reason here is, as already argued, that I do not want to make
translating Plone more difficult as it has to be. Subversion branches
are some added complexity I would like to avoid as long as it is possible.

I guess this won't be the case for too long anymore as I expect some of
the UI folks to start tweaking things in 2.5 soon, as the infrastructure
is nearly finished now. But as I cannot foretell the future I would like
to wait with the branching once this happens. Ideally we would see a
2.1.3 and a 2.5-beta2 release with shared translations before.

Best wishes,
Hanno



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[Vlada Macek-3]

Maurits van Rees wrote:

>Vlada Macek, on 2006-04-03:
>  
>
>>passwordresettool.pot:
>>
>>"... member name or your email address has changed) send an email to
>>${email_from_adress}."
>>
>>    1) member - shouldn't we try to avoid this term that is important
>>    for developers, but not-only-IMHO confusing for joe user?
>>
>>    2) ${email_from_adress} - a typo in msgid
>>
>>
>>Also in this product the notification mail is constructed in a way that
>>may be unfriendly to some languages. For more, isn't it redundant to use
>>DTML and ZPT for the same thing? (Looks like it's happening.)
>>    
>>
>
>Note that I changed the registered_notify_template.pt this week (a day
>before your mail it seems). (The svn log mentions jladage there, who
>is my boss.)
>
>I didn't adapt the .pot file though.  There are still some holes in my
>i18n knowledge.  Not touching too many files is a good way of not
>messing up. :)
>  
>

As this thread diverts, I decided to put it back on rails. :-)

The POT were updated recently, so I continued my translation work. I
found, that not even my objections weren't addressed in
PasswordResetTool. But it's not as bad as the introduction of another
problem.

Please avoid such construct as the following:

    "Welcome ${fullname}, You have..."

Note that not all languages use the same form of words when the subject
is named, called, addressed, ... For Czech I need to remove
"${fullname}" from the message, which would cause the test to fail. :-(

Also there is an upper cased Y after the comma remaining.

Thanks in advance. :-)

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(Sometimes credited as 1494 F8DD 6379 4CD7 E7E3 1FC9 D750 4243 1F05 9424.)

 [ When you find a virus in mail from me, then I intended to infect you, ]
 [ since I use SW that is not distributing malware w/o my knowledge.     ]

[Maurits van Rees-2]

Vlada Macek, on 2006-04-13:
> Please avoid such construct as the following:
>
>     "Welcome ${fullname}, You have..."
>
> Note that not all languages use the same form of words when the subject
> is named, called, addressed, ... For Czech I need to remove
> "${fullname}" from the message, which would cause the test to fail. :-(

Ehm, which test do you mean?  Maybe this helps: fullname is empty when
the fullname is not known.

BTW, when fullname exists it gets an extra space in front of it.  As I
understood it this can't be signalled correctly in the msgid.  Anyway,
someone without a fullname would get an email starting with:

Welcome,

and for instance you would get an email starting with:

Welcome Macek,

It may not be the most polite way of welcoming someone, at least not
in every language, but at least it is personalized, which I think is
good.

Are you saying that you would rather just have 'Welcome,' instead of
the personalized welcome?  I would guess that removing ${fullname}
from your translation _should_ work without problems.  Does Plone
complain when you drop a variable from the translation?

> Also there is an upper cased Y after the comma remaining.

In the actual template the upper case Y is at the beginning of the
next line:

    Welcome<span i18n:name="fullname" tal:replace="fullname" />,

    You have been registered...

This is apparently not visible in the pot file.  I think that can't
can be changed, but I'm no expert there.

For reference, the Dutch translation starts like this:

msgid "mailtemplate_registered_body"
msgstr ""
"Welkom${fullname},\n"
"\n"
"U bent geregistreerd..."


I hope this clears some things up,

--
Maurits van Rees | http://maurits.vanrees.org/ [NL]
            Work | http://zestsoftware.nl/
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