Plone 3.1.7 PO files Quick Survey Result

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Plone 3.1.7 PO files Quick Survey Result

Takeshi Yamamoto
Let me update the quick survey result from Plone 3.1.7 regarding  
PloneTranslations' PO files.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pgA5RsCXykF6TE4QJ5eBCJg&hl=en

- Plone has 60 PO files
- 28 PO files have more than 80% filled out.
- 18 PO files have 30%-80% filled out.
- 10 PO files have less than 30% filled out.
-   4 PO files could not be determined their percentage with i18ndude.

I just found Thai language's PO file is missing.
Since Thailand have 50 millions population, it might be worth to have.
Does anyone know someone who could make this filled out?


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Re: [Plone-AsiaPacific] Plone 3.1.7 PO files Quick Survey Result

Tim Knapp
Hi Takeshi,

There aren't a lot of Plonistas in Thailand but I know Tony O'Connell
tony at one dot ie is there. You could try and get in contact with him?

Thanks,
Tim

On Tue, 2008-12-23 at 00:16 +0900, Takeshi Yamamoto wrote:

> Let me update the quick survey result from Plone 3.1.7 regarding  
> PloneTranslations' PO files.
>
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pgA5RsCXykF6TE4QJ5eBCJg&hl=en
>
> - Plone has 60 PO files
> - 28 PO files have more than 80% filled out.
> - 18 PO files have 30%-80% filled out.
> - 10 PO files have less than 30% filled out.
> -   4 PO files could not be determined their percentage with i18ndude.
>
> I just found Thai language's PO file is missing.
> Since Thailand have 50 millions population, it might be worth to have.
> Does anyone know someone who could make this filled out?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Plone-AsiaPacific mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-asiapacific


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Re: Plone 3.1.7 PO files Quick Survey Result

Alexander Limi
Administrator
In reply to this post by Takeshi Yamamoto
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:16:09 -0800, Takeshi Yamamoto  
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> - 18 PO files have 30%-80% filled out.

I *think* Norwegian should be over 80% after my latest check-in (I didn't  
do the work, merely the sanity check and commit).

And yes, Thai translation has been high on my list for a while. Here's our  
priority list:

http://plone.org/news/help-improve-plone-in-your-language/

--
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Re: Plone 3.1.7 PO files Quick Survey Result

Alexander Limi
Administrator
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Mohsen Moeeni <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 11:13 PM, Alexander Limi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> And yes, Thai translation has been high on my list for a while. Here's our
> priority list:
>
> http://plone.org/news/help-improve-plone-in-your-language/

My first language, Persian[1], is in tier 3 yet it has got more
native speakers than many in tier 1. What's the ground  of the
division cited in this page? Just curious.

The tiers are based one number of people that have access to the internet, not population numbers alone. Thus, Persian is in tier 3.

Don't read anything else into that data, though — we're just as happy to have a language covered in Tier 3 as in Tier 1. It's just that people have been asking for numbers, and I was able to talk to a researcher in this area and get a list of the dominant languages on the internet. So for *recruiting purposes* (ie. what languages we could add that would make a big impact), this data is useful — when we already have translators, as in the case of Persian, the next goal is to get it over 90% coverage.

But thanks for asking the question, I should have qualified my data more clearly in the first place. :)

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Re: Plone 3.1.7 PO files Quick Survey Result

Alexander Limi
Administrator
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Mohsen Moeeni <[hidden email]> wrote:

PS: Not sure that I'm too happy about http://plone.ir having Drupal and Joomla downloads on it. ;)

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Re: Plone 3.1.7 PO files Quick Survey Result

Alexander Limi
Administrator
In reply to this post by Alexander Limi
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Mohsen Moeeni <[hidden email]> wrote:
It's no problem at all though it's really misleading. Just for your
information,
Persian language was listed by Technorati among 10 most common languages
among bloggers in 2006 [1].

Technorati has never been representative of the internet as a whole, not by any stretch. Bloggers are a very, very small part of the internet population.

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Re: Plone 3.1.7 PO files Quick Survey Result

Takeshi Yamamoto
In reply to this post by Alexander Limi
I have calculated numbers based on svn repository of PloneTranslation  
today as follows.

(i18ndude)mb1:i18n retsu$ svn update
Updated to revision 77971.
(i18ndude)mb1:i18n retsu$ echo $arg1
plone plonelanguagetool passwordresettool linguaplone atcontenttypes  
atreferencebrowserwidget cmfeditions cmfplacefulworkflow
(i18ndude)mb1:i18n retsu$ i18ndude list -products $arg1

But still I found it as follows.
  59% - Norwegian (no)

Thanks for the URL of the list.
I have emailed to our local community for help to improve this.

Actually, the initial Japanese PO file was developed by following  
three persons for Plone 1.
   - one American who was living in Japan
   - one Japanese who was living in Germany
   - one Japanese who was living in Japan
Then, I joined.  So, ja.po file was started globally.
Let's improve target languages globally first, then wait for local  
people to join.

Takeshi Yamamoto / retsu

On Dec 23, 2008, at 4:43 AM, Alexander Limi wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 07:16:09 -0800, Takeshi Yamamoto
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> - 18 PO files have 30%-80% filled out.
>
> I *think* Norwegian should be over 80% after my latest check-in (I  
> didn't
> do the work, merely the sanity check and commit).
>
> And yes, Thai translation has been high on my list for a while.  
> Here's our
> priority list:
>
> http://plone.org/news/help-improve-plone-in-your-language/
>
> --
> Alexander Limi · http://limi.net
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Plone-i18n mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-i18n


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Re: [Plone-AsiaPacific] Plone 3.1.7 PO files Quick Survey Result

Takeshi Yamamoto
In reply to this post by Tim Knapp
Thanks Tim,

But my email could be a spam for him, I guess.
As a first thing, I have emailed to our local Japanese Plone community  
for help.

Takeshi

On Dec 23, 2008, at 4:21 AM, Tim Knapp wrote:

> Hi Takeshi,
>
> There aren't a lot of Plonistas in Thailand but I know Tony O'Connell
> tony at one dot ie is there. You could try and get in contact with  
> him?
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
> On Tue, 2008-12-23 at 00:16 +0900, Takeshi Yamamoto wrote:
>> Let me update the quick survey result from Plone 3.1.7 regarding
>> PloneTranslations' PO files.
>>
>> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pgA5RsCXykF6TE4QJ5eBCJg&hl=en
>>
>> - Plone has 60 PO files
>> - 28 PO files have more than 80% filled out.
>> - 18 PO files have 30%-80% filled out.
>> - 10 PO files have less than 30% filled out.
>> -   4 PO files could not be determined their percentage with  
>> i18ndude.
>>
>> I just found Thai language's PO file is missing.
>> Since Thailand have 50 millions population, it might be worth to  
>> have.
>> Does anyone know someone who could make this filled out?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Plone-AsiaPacific mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-asiapacific
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Plone-AsiaPacific mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-asiapacific


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Re: Plone 3.1.7 PO files Quick Survey Result

Alexander Limi
Administrator
In reply to this post by Takeshi Yamamoto
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 6:49 AM, Takeshi Yamamoto <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have calculated numbers based on svn repository of PloneTranslation today as follows.

My fault — the files I committed was in plone.app.locales (Plone 3.2), and since I did an "svn commit" from that package, it didn't commit the externals (which are still in PloneTranslations).

If you do an "svn up" now, you should get the correct file. Thanks for catching this. :)

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Re: Plone 3.1.7 PO files Quick Survey Result

Weisglass Ofer
In reply to this post by Takeshi Yamamoto

Hi Takeshi,

This information was on Plone.org next to the translation team page for long time
I also think a page about products translation is very important and also how many documents (if any at all) are translated to this language

Fighter with fry-it we also did a summery of the files and not translated values and forwarded it to a professional translation service company

I think this is very important step for Plone to have this updated and files checked by pro translators and not just by anybody who did a bit of translation

It will be few hounder dollars for each po file to fix and check (all bugs and right translation)

Today Plone is been used by big name companies and better translation both for the user interface and for the administrator will help Plone a lot

If I will have a good feedback about this we can continue and take donation in order to finish the files

One last issue - in some languages it is not only the translation but also the interface bugs - (Like Right to left languages)
Please ask to report specific language bugs as well

Ofer Wiesglass




On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 5:16 PM, Takeshi Yamamoto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Let me update the quick survey result from Plone 3.1.7 regarding
PloneTranslations' PO files.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pgA5RsCXykF6TE4QJ5eBCJg&hl=en

- Plone has 60 PO files
- 28 PO files have more than 80% filled out.
- 18 PO files have 30%-80% filled out.
- 10 PO files have less than 30% filled out.
-   4 PO files could not be determined their percentage with i18ndude.

I just found Thai language's PO file is missing.
Since Thailand have 50 millions population, it might be worth to have.
Does anyone know someone who could make this filled out?


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Re: Plone 3.1.7 PO files Quick Survey Result

Jonathan Lewis
Dear Ofer,

I can only speak about the Japanese translation of Plone, but I would trust our current way of doing things more than sending po files to a commercial translation service. The most important thing when translating Plone files is to know what the phrase means in the context of Plone, which requires the translator to have Plone installed and to see what happens when a link is clicked etc. I don't know any translation company that is going to do that. Of course consistent style and use of terminology are also important, but the Japanese translation team already has rules for that. And they take a lot of time to discuss the meaning and best possible translation of each phrase. 

On the other hand, for languages where insufficient translation coverage is a problem but for which we don't have any volunteer translators in the Plone community, using a commercial translation service might bring better results than just giving the po files to a native speaker of that language who doesn't know Plone.

Jonathan Lewis



On 2008/12/25, at 1:32, Weisglass Ofer wrote:

Hi Takeshi,

This information was on Plone.org next to the translation team page for long time
I also think a page about products translation is very important and also how many documents (if any at all) are translated to this language

Fighter with fry-it we also did a summery of the files and not translated values and forwarded it to a professional translation service company

I think this is very important step for Plone to have this updated and files checked by pro translators and not just by anybody who did a bit of translation

It will be few hounder dollars for each po file to fix and check (all bugs and right translation)

Today Plone is been used by big name companies and better translation both for the user interface and for the administrator will help Plone a lot

If I will have a good feedback about this we can continue and take donation in order to finish the files

One last issue - in some languages it is not only the translation but also the interface bugs - (Like Right to left languages)
Please ask to report specific language bugs as well

Ofer Wiesglass




On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 5:16 PM, Takeshi Yamamoto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Let me update the quick survey result from Plone 3.1.7 regarding
PloneTranslations' PO files.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pgA5RsCXykF6TE4QJ5eBCJg&hl=en

- Plone has 60 PO files
- 28 PO files have more than 80% filled out.
- 18 PO files have 30%-80% filled out.
- 10 PO files have less than 30% filled out.
-   4 PO files could not be determined their percentage with i18ndude.

I just found Thai language's PO file is missing.
Since Thailand have 50 millions population, it might be worth to have.
Does anyone know someone who could make this filled out?


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Re: Plone 3.1.7 PO files Quick Survey Result

Takeshi Yamamoto
In reply to this post by Weisglass Ofer
Hi Ofer,

Thanks for your suggestion.  It's shameful that I didn't aware these  
pages.
Checking by pro translator could be one of the way to make it done.

But I think "sustainability" is also important.  If there is a sponsor  
to pay money due to his own purpose,
it will be no problem.  When English POT file upgraded, he/she might  
be willing to support to upgrade
their local PO file.  Once that PO file got filled up, followers might  
show up and maintain it.
So, I think asking to professional translators who are not Plone users  
is not sustainable.

Another issue is the "quality of translation".  It might be difficult  
to translate some Plone jargons without
knowing Plone.  For example, content rules and collections are  
difficult concept without using them.
It might be good if mostly same individuals continue to update PO files.
I don't think professional translators have Plone knowledge usually.

One more thing I want to see is "community expansion".  By  
participating their PO file creation and update,
I expect several people will meet and collaborate regardless online or  
offline.  They could be seeds of
their local community.  Through the PO file initial translation work  
and continuous update work, I want
to see the local people gets involved in global community.  I wish to  
see some of these people will organize
  WorldPloneDay locally, hold Plone meetings locally, start up Plone  
company locally, etc. someday in future.

As you mentioned, the quality of translation is very important.  Plone  
is used in many big enterprises already here, too.
We are brushing up quality of translation with various IT  
professionals who came to monthly local meetings or on mailinglist.
Many of them are not good at English but very good at IT systems.  So,  
both language and systems knowledges
need to be collaborated in depth.

So, I would encourage to have voluntary based translators rather than  
one-time professional translators.
Also, looking for "sponsors" who has a good reason to improve the  
target PO files might be a good idea.
PO file maintenance continues forever and needs continuous improvement  
scheme.

Best Regards and Happy Holidays!
Takeshi Yamamoto

On Dec 25, 2008, at 1:32 AM, Weisglass Ofer wrote:

> Hi Takeshi,
>
> This information was on Plone.org next to the translation team page  
> for long time
> I also think a page about products translation is very important and  
> also how many documents (if any at all) are translated to this  
> language
>
> Fighter with fry-it we also did a summery of the files and not  
> translated values and forwarded it to a professional translation  
> service company
>
> I think this is very important step for Plone to have this updated  
> and files checked by pro translators and not just by anybody who did  
> a bit of translation
>
> It will be few hounder dollars for each po file to fix and check  
> (all bugs and right translation)
>
> Today Plone is been used by big name companies and better  
> translation both for the user interface and for the administrator  
> will help Plone a lot
>
> If I will have a good feedback about this we can continue and take  
> donation in order to finish the files
>
> One last issue - in some languages it is not only the translation  
> but also the interface bugs - (Like Right to left languages)
> Please ask to report specific language bugs as well
>
> Ofer Wiesglass
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 5:16 PM, Takeshi Yamamoto <[hidden email]>  
> wrote:
> Let me update the quick survey result from Plone 3.1.7 regarding
> PloneTranslations' PO files.
>
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pgA5RsCXykF6TE4QJ5eBCJg&hl=en
>
> - Plone has 60 PO files
> - 28 PO files have more than 80% filled out.
> - 18 PO files have 30%-80% filled out.
> - 10 PO files have less than 30% filled out.
> -   4 PO files could not be determined their percentage with i18ndude.
>
> I just found Thai language's PO file is missing.
> Since Thailand have 50 millions population, it might be worth to have.
> Does anyone know someone who could make this filled out?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Plone-i18n mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-i18n
>
>


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Re: [Plone-AsiaPacific] Re: Plone 3.1.7 PO files QuickSurvey Result

Jean Jordaan
> Is there any special process other than just creating a new .po file and
> putting in the phrases?

Don't forget these:
  http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/

Evolving set of very interesting tools for .po (and other formats).

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